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Devil’s Advocate

I’m surely not calling anyone a “devil” here so please, let’s get that straight but here are some scenarios I’d like you to weigh in on.  Of course, this is all our own opinions and yes, I want to hear from both sides with your reasoning.

1.  Suppose I write a book of quilt patterns.  I use fabric in those quilts.  One of the quilts is on the cover of my book.  My publisher uses that quilt in promotional materials like flyers, postcards reminding you about upcoming quilt shows, or maybe the publisher shares a copy of the cover of my new book in quilt magazines to promote the book.  Copyright violation(s) or not?

2.  Suppose I make a quilt that I’m donating to the United Way to raffle.  Of course, I’m using fabric in that quilt . . maybe a Texas themed fabric by Moda!  Suppose United Way decides to put a photo of that quilt on their promotional materials.  Copyright violation or not?

3.  Suppose I’m taking a workshop at your guild or your regional quilt show.  You use a photo of the quilt I’m going to be teaching for your promotional materials.  You really need folks to sign up for that class but they have to see the quilt in order to know if they like it or not before they sign up.  You’re making money off the lessons I’m teaching.  Is sharing a photo of the quilt a copyright violation?

4.  Suppose I’ve written three books and each book had 12 – 15 quilts in it and my sewing room is so full of quilts that I need to sell some of them.  They’re made with fabric I purchased.  Can I sell some of those quilts?

Some suggest just using the fabric for personal use.  Once you’ve made the quilts, a few years down the road someone comes to you and asks if you will donate a quilt to the local fund raiser.  Or, someone says “Will you make me a quilt just like this one?  I’ll pay you!” and you say “I’ll sell you this one!”  Chances are you will never get caught or have any problems for doing something once or twice but breaking the rules is breaking the rules!

Do you see where this is going?  When folks get too “copyright crazy”, it creates problems for all of us.  Yes, this all can and will blow over but as long as there’s a quilter out there who doesn’t realize the ramifications of using some of these fabrics, we need to make sure it does not blow over quite yet.

I’ve already written to my favorite designer, Gail Kessler, the Dimples (Andover Fabrics) lady and she has no problem with Dimples being used in my books!  Maybe there needs to be a list published of which companies will allow what to be done with their fabrics.  I’m telling you . . with my blog having the ads, it’s already considered “commercial” by some and I will avoid any fabric that makes any mention of wanting it to be used for personal use only.

Reader Interactions

Comments

  2. Well written post, Judy. I’m with you on how out of hand this copyright issue has become. I also will be watching for the “for personal use only” notation on fabric, and move on when I see it.

  3. Where do you find if a fabric is for personal use only? I pay dearly for the fabric I purchase, I think I’ve more than paid to use it for what I want.

  4. I’ve been quilting since early 90’s, now how am I to know which fabric has for personal use and which doesn’t. There are scraps and FQ, no selvage, so no way of knowing. sigh… I’m still going to make what I want and give to those in need or who I want to. With luck I will avoid a violation of copy right. I will be watching in the future.
    Hugs!!!!

  5. I would think that the fabric manufacturers would be delighted to see their fabric in a beautiful quilt. They sell more fabric that way. I also feel when you use someone’s pattern, their name should go on the label as the designer.

  7. I think that once a person purchases the fabric it becomes theirs to use as they see fit, including making it into something they will sell, or even just selling the fabric (look at all the blog garage sales going on now). And if someone makes a quilt and takes pictures of it, the quilt and the pictures belong to them and there should be no question of copyright infringement. There is no question that to copy the design for a commercial reason would be wrong, and I think that is where the problem lay. The picture was a close up of the quilt and maybe only showed the fabric. But I haven’t seen the bags so I don’t know for sure. It would be courteous however to acknowledge the fabric designer and manufacturer in a large commercial product, like a book. Glad to hear you’re going to do that.

  8. Very well written! I know there needs to be protection of copyrights, but at the same time, you are paying to be able to use that product. What I wonder will be next? You have to buy goods to make goods, are we eventually not going to be able to buy yarn to make items to sell? I hope the thread manufacturers don’t start selling copyrighted colors, then we won’t be able to sew anything to sell anymore.
    Besides, as long as someone gives credit as to who the fabric is from (especially in printed handouts, etc), then I would think they would be at least glad for all the more publicity.

  9. I would say that in those 4 instance, that although it’s on the line – that it should not be considered copyright violation. Unless the fabric was ”for personal use only” LOL 🙂 I bought some U of Idaho fabric – to make my son a quilt. I know it’s ‘for personal use only’, so I would not make a quilt to *sell* with it, but I would make one for a gift with it (like for my son). That’s the limit of fabric I would buy that’s for ‘personal use only’ though – because it would be obvious to me that it’s licensed material. Fandango is not obvious, especially since it came in precuts with the selvages cut OFF! 😛

  10. It’s just gotten ridiculous with the copyright thing. To ME, if a fabric has a copyright and you purchase the fabric, you have paid the fee. I suppose if folks wanted to get truly technical they could go further, but please…..everyone has their knickers in a twist with the Pinterest thingy….if someone pins an idea…..there’s no money involved anyway. I think everyone is too sensitive anymore. Everyone is trying to police everything these days……ultimately not a good direction to go, IMHO.

  11. I decided a year ago to no longer enter our very small local quilt show or our county fair because of the same type of issues. I was not allowed to acknowledge the pattern designer. Heck, in the fair we can not have our name on the quilt before judging!! What happened to the fun? I agree, no more licensed fabric. The end.

  12. Copyright has gone crazy…say Kate Spain sells her fabric to moda…moda sells it commercially to quilt shops…is that a violation? In turn, the quilt shop owner sells the fabric commercially….is that a violation? Neither of those are for personal use..they both make a profit from the sale of copyrighted fabric. So why do we, the little guy, get sued! There are cases of ladies selling children’s clothes on etsy who are being sued for using copyrighted fabric….it is ridiculous. Once ms Spain sells her fabric, she loses control…once I buy it it’s mine to do with as I will. where has common sense gone?!!

  13. Bonnie Hunter wrote about this too. What a mess. I guess an author is being sued by the fabric designer for having a picture in a book of a quilt made with her fabric. I find this so crazy. I wonder where this could all end up?

  14. I had already read Leah Day’s post when I saw your post. Personally, I feel Kate Spain just bit off the hand that feeds her. She stood to sell lots of that fabric if people who bought the ecobags and/or Emily’s book loved it and wanted the fabric. As it is, she’s made such a stink that now people are gun-shy and will simply avoid buying her fabric with that restrictive warning on the selvedge. The very people who create the fabric for us quilters to use are tying our hands to the point of dictating how we use it after we buy it. I’m not into making or dyeing my own fabric, so in my opinion I should be able to do whatever I want with the fabric I buy. I guess I won’t be buying anymore of Kate’s fabric. Too bad, too, because I really like her fabric. Perhaps we need a list of truly “quilter friendly” fabric designers. This has gotten totally out of hand.

    • Yes, indeed, Kate Spain had bitten the hands that feed her. I, for one, will never consider purchasing any product which is in any discernible way connected to Kate Spain. Never. I hope Moda drops her as a designer.

  15. I have some fabric manufactured by Rose & Hubble that I purchased in 1999. The selvage states “Not to be used for commercial manufacture.” I had planned to make a quilt to sell, but I never dared. Sometimes I wonder if it means mass production, but it doesn’t say that. So it sits on my shelf. Chances are slim that they’d chase me down but those words sure are intimidating.

    • I remember when Rose & Hubble put that on their fabrics. It was very controversial back then. My question is Rose & Hubble still in business? I loved their fabrics but don’t remember seeing any of their fabrics at shows or markets.
      I still have a few small pieces

  16. Look at this another way. I am going to build a wagon. I buy wood, nails and wheels from various suppliers. I complete my wagon and then put it up for sale. Have I violated copyrights or patent rights of the wood supplier, the nail supplier or wheel supplier. I do not think so.
    Some quilters have just gone too far and I think they are going to fine out they may have much fabric that does not sell. Just my humble thoughts.

  17. I also have been following this situation. I wonder what would happen if the fabric was used to make clothing? Seems like that is a copyright free area.

    What I think needs to happen is the store owners need to request either no personal use fabric or only buy fabric where they can get permission for their customers to use as they please, for personal use or to sell.

    For me I look at personal use as making only a few of one item. If I were a manufacturer then I could be in violation.

    I do hope the store owners going to market protest this practice by not purchasing the fabrics in question. They can make a strong statement or may in the end be stuck with fabrics the consumer will not buy.

    I feel anytime a fabric is used in a quilt that is pictured, displayed or used for a pattern it helps to sell the material, I have had people come to me with a picture of a quilt wanting to know about just one fabric used in the quilt. I see all the time people asking for fabric that was manufactured seveal years ago.

    I do design quilts that use copyright fabrics. The designer of the fabrics must approve the design before the pattern is every written. This sometimes leads to me designing 3 to ???? choices and I may or may not get paid for my effort.

    If I designed fabrics I would just be happy the print company advertises my product. I also would be very happy to see designers use my fabrics in their patterns and books.

  18. I was just at “Quilt Camp” last week and some of us were discussing this very issue. DO THEY WANT US TO BUY THE STUFF OR WHAT?? I’m going to be watching my selvages as well and not purchasing the licensed ones.

  19. Why do they sell the fabric in the first place – to use! That’s what I think
    No one’s going to buy it just to look at – well with a few exceptions-lol

  20. After checking Leah’s blog and reading all the comments, I think the only solution is to go to court and have the issue settled once and for all. Then we can get back to quilting and having fun!!

  21. I just had a thought, does anyone know if the for personal use only or one of my favorites ‘for individual consumption only’ printed on the fabirc have to do more with liability of what I may make with the fabric and sell to someone, who may be injured somehow from my product and go after the fabric company? Or is it so things aren’t mass produced from the fabric, say for example for Target or something. I was just thinking about the ‘not intended for sleepwear’ being printed on the fabric and it sparked a different thought about the for personal use clause. Thanks for your thoughts!

  22. Kate Spain has poisoned the well from which we all (as quilters) –Ms. Spain included — drink. This episode has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I think I could walk away from quilting and never look back. Her actions are quite unjustifiable in any moral sense, and she had robbed the quilting world of much good will and joy. Fie on Kate Spain and her poisonous actions.

  23. I think once a designer sells the design they have been justly compensated for their art and the buyer of that design now owns the copyright to the design. I abruptly stopped buying purse patterns from a popular purse designer when she would not give permission for a purse made from her design to be donated to a worthy cause for auction. Her name would have been on the purse.
    Some people are self-aggrandized to a fault and their business is definitely hurt–if only by me and my guild.

  25. This is a very unfortunate situation. I am disappointed in this designer as well as the manufacturer. I look forward to seeing ads in magazines, pictures on blogs, flyers in quilt shops etc. It helps me keep up with new trends and products. I also love new books with loads of pictures (both old and new fabrics) and updated techniques and patterns. All of these things keep me engaged to this hobby–wanting to buy new product to create more! I want to be able to show, give, and use what I create as I see fit. Fear of a lawsuit takes the joy right out of the process.

  26. I think the fabric designer would lose – if it actually went to court – in any situation where the image was of a quilt made with their fabrics. But in the meantime people are being scared off by just the threat of legal action.

  27. It is sad that we seem to sue at the drop of a hat. Whatever did she intend should happen to fabric? Does she not want to have people inspired to use it?

  28. I’d answer no to each of those questions and then waffle and say it depends on what kind of contracts are in place. And the amount of greed involved.

    I’m sure lots of fabric designers have been watching this whole Kate Spain fiasco and having serious thoughts about what it could mean if quilters just say enough is enough and quit buying fabric by designers who create such a stink about copyright. Contracts with manufacturers might be a little hard to come by for those designers.

  29. My head is spinning!!! I know copyright laws are complex, and I don’t profess to understand them. This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as did the absurd stance Brenda P (whatever her name is) took when someone made a Dear Jane quilt and put it for sale on eBay. Brenda threatened all sorts of things, and even told the woman she could sell it if she split the sale proceeds with her. I know this for a fact as I was bidding on the quilt and the seller kept me in the loop. Brenda later posted a very small retraction of her position on her website after
    consulting her lawyers. I was done with that designer. Maybe I’m only one person and my refusal to buy that person’s products won’t make much difference, but if enough people did………

    • I remember that happening and after that people called the quilt The Jane S. quilt and not the D.J. Brenda P. did not design that quilt she traced and copied each block and border triangle and then made a book using Jane S. quilt. She found out that she could not and did not copyright the blocks only the D. J. name she used for the Jane S. quilt. If I remember right the woman on ebay changed the name of her quilt to the Jane S. quilt and was able to sell it. If Brenda P. was allowed to copy the blocks for print what made her think others couldn’t use them because she did not design them herself ? My Jane quilt is not finished. It left a really big sour taste in my mouth and I think really hurt her business.

  30. My head is spinning!!! I know copyright laws are complex, and I don’t profess to understand them. This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as did the absurd stance Brenda P (whatever her name is) took when someone made a Dear Jane quilt and put it for sale on eBay. Brenda threatened all sorts of things, and even told the woman she could sell it if she split the sale proceeds with her. I know this for a fact as I was bidding on the quilt and the seller kept me in the loop. Brenda later posted a very small retraction of her position on her website after
    consulting her lawyers. I was done with that designer. Maybe I’m only one person and my refusal to buy that person’s products won’t make much difference, but if enough people did………

  31. I am so naive, I had no idea all of this was going on. I have been thinking for some months of setting up a blog, or a Facebook page to record the quilts that I make, but now I am glad that I haven’t. I have no idea now whose design I used for the quilt I made two years ago, or which designer designed the fabric.
    Now I understand why blogs go on so much about these things when they discuss recently completed projects!
    Looks like no blog for me. And it looked so much fun too!

  32. all i want to see on my fabric salvedges is the manufacturer, the designer, the name of the fabric line, the color dots, and any historical information. if there’s anything else on that salvedge it stays right where it landed in the store.

    as for your questions, Judy, #’s 1 and 2 aren’t violations of the copywrite law.

    #3 you would have to work out an agreement with the shop owner. But if it were my shop I would only give pics to those who signed up as part of a registration packet, just to be safe.
    As for the advertizing, I would include your pic as the teacher, the name of the quilt being made, and the disclaimer “for more info stop by the store”, because as a store owner i most likely would NOT want you teaching a quilt pattern that was already published unless the students also bought the book or pattern as a required part of the class.
    #4 would be between you and your publisher, depending on what agreement you had worked out for the demo quilts in the book contract. But i would definitely contact the publisher before selling a quilt that had been published. And if your contract says that they own the rights to the quilts, then i would ship said quilts back to the publisher if i needed more room.

  33. Just thinking about all this makes my head hurt! I understand an artist wanting to “protect” their product, but quilting seems to not really lend itself to this type of hyper-surveliance. The whole nature of quilting is sharing. I have one for you as well. I saw this great quilt on Pinterest and I loved it. I went to my trusty EQ and drafted it. It is different—way bigger, but still clearly you can see the original quilt. With all this going on, I went back to try to find out the person who posted it and it is no longer posted (it never had a name attached though in the first place). I have already cut it out—btw-used my OWN hand dyes, but now I am afraid to post it on my blog once it is finished. Have I violated anything? I have always thought that if it is placed in the public domain (on the internet) and no mention is made of the creator, then it is “free game”. Now if I get brought into court, there isn’t much a person can get—I am fabric “poor”—but my goodness–one more thing to worry about. I too have decided that when I buy fabric, no matter how much I like it, if it has “for personal use only”, it is NOT coming home with me. I do dye my own fabric, but really like patterns as well, maybe I will learn to dye batiks for patterns. Quilting isn’t quite as much fun as it use/should be.

  34. I come back to my naive view. I’m a consumer and I pay darn good money for pretty fabric and now I can’t use it? Really? It all is ridiculous.

    We have run into this copyright issue with patterns. Last year, I refused to buy a particular, very popular pattern because the designer said no to using it in a closed group on Flickr. I was just a participant in the swap and not the person who asked. I will never buy that pattern. There is an eerily similar design in the public domain that can be just as effective as her pattern. So I won’t pay $9.00 for the pattern and I probably would have if she said yes but she wasn’t even nice about it so I said the heck with her.

    You know, when things like all of this start happening we can thank the internet for keeping us informed so that we can make good decisions but honestly, it makes me almost want to walk away and say I don’t need to create a quilt. It takes the enjoyment out of quilting.

    Truthfully, making tons of money being a quilter is difficult and the people who are in the business of selling their craft know it. I guess I truly don’t understand why any of these people want to kill their cash cow.

    Judy, thanks….you always provide a good forum for conversation whether it be chickens or quilting! What on earth would we do without you in our day? By the way….have a fabulous day! 🙂

  35. I see no copyright violation in any of your scenarios. I thought the copyright on the fabric was to protect the fabric designer from someone else creating the same fabric and selling it for their own benefit. Now I’ll have to look for the words “for personal use only” on the selvedge and, you can bet, I will not buy that fabric.

    I hope there will be a definitive resolution to this case but that probably won’t happen.

  36. My thought is that if the designer of the fabric only wants their fabric used for personal use only, then they should be the only one who sells it. Keep it out of the quilt shops so there is not issue later. If it is sold to the public, including designers, who use the material how they see fit, there should be no violations of any kind. This country is going to hell in a hand basket!

  37. Like Vicky, this whole situation leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well.
    As for your questions, my common sense says:
    1. No
    2. No, but it be a courtesy for United Way to ask for permission from the donor/quilt maker.
    3. No
    4. Yes, you can sell your quilts.
    I believe credit should be given, whenever possible, where it is due but this takes things too far.
    It would be interesting to see where Moda (as the fabric manufacturer) and other fabric designers stand on this issue.

  38. What good are fabric designers if no one uses their fabric? Let’s find out.

  39. Penny Power
    The only real power that works in this type of situation is the power of the purse…
    And if you let distributers, shops and a certain designer know that you as a consumer will no longer be buying any fabric by a designer or disturber that that uses that blood chilling limitation it can add up real fast….
    So when I shop for that perfect piece of fabric today to back a birthday quilt for a very special 80 year old I will make very very sure it is not any part of any Kate Spain Collection…. With or without the poison on the salvage .

  40. First, let me say I’m NOT the copyright police… and these opinions are just that: OPINIONS! Just sayin’, but I think here are some other things that may need to be taken into consideration in the scenarios listed, Judy.

    One is that copyright “RULES” arent’ rules at all… they are not laws, they are legal guidelines in case a dispute goes to court. We do need to be aware of copyright so we aren’t intentionally compromising other quilt maker/ designers intellectual property (ie. creativity). Intentionally or not, using another person’s work without their express permission would be very hard to defend in court. Like the fact that EVERYTHING on the internet is private intellectual property… nothing is ‘free’, all photos, patterns, etc. found on the ‘net or in books, must be credited to the developer.

    Second (and third), we need to deal with the terms “Fair Use” and “Loss of Income”. If a person KNOWS or even suspects the design they are using was developed by another person, and they use it without permission (don’t ask and receive permission and/or pay for it) then that use comes under the heading of “Loss of Income” and they’d have a really hard time defending the use in a court. You just CAN’T knowingly use somebody else’s intellectual property willy-nilly. If a person uses a pattern or fabric in a public manner, for profit, it may be quite different from a person independently developing a pattern that is the same as another designer’s work. Ask Dan Brown about this one!

    If you purchase a book of patterns, then the author has granted you permission to use the patterns inside for your own use. If you loan your book to another quilter, so she/he doesn’t have to buy her own copy, that is “Intent to Defraud”, “Loss of Income” and “Unfair Use” all three. Tough to defend on that one, eh? Perhaps it could be argued that “personal use” includes sale of the quilt involved (that was made using the book), since the book was purchased and ownership was transferred at that time. Precedent here would be the use of a recepie from a cookbook that was used to make brownies which are then sold. intent to Defraud, or Fair Use since the book was purchased?

    I think, but don’t know what precedent is, that fabric is another deal altogether… fabric is produced for sale and as such I’d argue that the product the purchaser makes (after purchasing the fabric – no loss of income here) with the fabric is not a violation of the fabric designer’s copyright. Intent to defraud is the issue here. Of course, I could be wrong on this one… I think it depends on the relative power of the Lawyers involved. I do think that the purchaser is granted Fair Use of fabric upon purchase… OPINION here.

    All of this wordy post is opinion, and I’m not legal counsel, so take it all for what it is worth –

  41. This whole situation is ridiculous! I know I won’t be buying any Kate Spain fabric again and I really love some of her fabrics. It’s all about the money.

  42. This whole situation is ridiculous! I know I won’t be buying any Kate Spain fabric again and I really love some of her fabrics. It’s all about the money. Quilters are by nature very generous about sharing their designs. I’m in agreement with some of the other comments…if it says “for personal use only” it will not be coming home with me. Let’s see what the designers say when their fabrics stop selling.

  44. What we need is a petition we quilters could sign, that is sent to all the fabric manufacturers letting them know how we feel about the use restrictions put on the fabrics they produce. When they know they will lose sales because they limit what we can do with their fabrics, the policies will change. Money talks, and the quilt market is big money.

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